How to Co-op: Salaries & Reviews



Today, I'm a wifi parasite in the uSwitch office. Over lunch, Tom Hall pointed out that nilenso doesn't pay bonuses, instead opting for transparent salaries, chosen on merit to the degree possible. (Read more on our original post: "Huh? A Software Co-operative?") His question is one we get often: How do we decide salaries?

Our first stab at this was a model we'd inherited from other companies we'd worked at: have salary bands which match up to the skill and experience of the current staff, match that to the available cash, and set salaries accordingly. At first, we actually started off with an approach that was even more naive -- rather than salary bands, we had "levels". To improve one's salary beyond the usual bump provided for inflation, it was really a huge leap from "college kid" to "junior" to "intermediate" to "senior". Under this model, we also had no real vision for future "levels" (yagni?); the most senior person on staff was the highest salary we imagined paying.



This system is very obviously broken when graphed this way, but there are a number of other little firms in Bangalore which still operate this way. The inevitable conclusion is the introduction of "Level 2.5" and other confused ideas which make a broken system even worse.

Incrementing on this inherited model, we tried to smooth out the curve and divide up each "level" into ten increments. The old integer levels (now L1.0, L2.0, and so on) represented concrete, documented responsibility changes under the incremental system. The new incremental levels (L2.2, L4.3) were sort of tweened into thirds. A concrete example: L2.0 is a intermediate developer who is capable of driving design decisions (and a pair, if pair programming). L3.0 is an intermediate developer who can mentor, architect individual systems, and drive hiring decisions. L2.1 to 2.3, L2.4 to 2.6, and L2.7 to 2.9 give us three junior-to-senior tiers to play with when describing the growth of a developer from a "solid intermediate pair" to "mentor". With increments, everyone grew 0.2 or 0.3 each year, rather than jumping from L2 to L3 every three years. (In practice, the integer system usually meant redesigning the entire system every year.)


Reviews in 2014


Once we had the incremental model in place, we tried to iterate on our previous experience of "behind closed doors" reviews, as well. The goals were transparency, fairness, and comfort. Big all-hands referendums could be embarrassing -- and had proven inefficient for all sorts of other decisions, which caused us to elect a small "Executive" (two people), similar to an elected Board of Directors in a large corporate co-operative. The Executive drove the review process. We kept track of each review on a whiteboard, so everyone could see what was going on as it happened. Each review included the two people from the Executive, the person being reviewed, that person's "sponsor" (another vestige of another company we'd worked for - namely, ThoughtWorks), and their closest coworkers/team members. The sponsor presented a proposed salary, and the review discussion worked backward from there. The process worked reasonably well, but as we discovered this year, we were a bit too liberal with salary jumps.

Once we'd finished the review cycle, we took a step back and tried to answer the "what does the future look like?" question. Working with "explicit is better than implicit" as a foundational rule, one is forced to visualize a complete salary framework. This implies a couple of things:

1) "complete" inherently means "global"
2) "complete" inherently means "lifelong"

Therefore, our salary bands had to map a curve from the lowest-paid, straight-out-of-college hacker to the most talented and experienced computer scientist money can hire. The former is easy enough to imagine... we've all hired dozens of those folks. But the best of the best, the world over, near the end of her career? I'm not even sure I've met such a person.


The COMPLETE Salary Curve


So, for the sake of argument, let's assume we're hiring Leslie Lamport, assuming he makes a high salary at Microsoft Research. Or perhaps a senior-most computer programmer from Google. A little asking around, Glassdoor, and that infamous secret.ly "salaries at Google" thread all told us that our ballpark figure of $500,000 USD wasn't too far off. Maybe a little higher or a little lower, but something so far away from nilenso's present reality need not be overly precise. It's just a helpful stake in the ground. For us, a $500,000 salary represents Developer Level 10.0 -- someone who's about to retire and has turned the industry upside down over the course of their career.

There's huge value in imagining the highest salary you will ever pay. We humans don't like to spend a lot of time pondering the end of our productive days. We like to spend time pondering the scary last chapter of our mortality even less. But these things are real. Everything real, everything fact-based, has to be laid bare in a completely transparent organization.

Our first pass was difficult, uncomfortable, and (of course) incorrect.



Fast forward one year to nilenso's 2015 review cycle, and it was apparent our 2014 curve didn't really fit. We'd made a few mistakes: high-end salaries (L4.x and L5.x) were too high, some jumps had been too big, the L1 salary band didn't fit on a smooth curve. (You can see this from the graph: the L1-L2 salary band has a steeper slope than L2-L3 and the inflection at L4-L5 is also obviously incorrect.)  However, being completely honest about the data is only step #1. Step #2 is to be completely honest with _ourselves_: we'd made some mistakes in 2014 and we needed to correct them. We jiggled the L1 salary band a bit, some L2.x salaries didn't jump as much as expected, L4.x and L5.x salaries came way down.

Our second pass was difficult, uncomfortable, and (will likely be) incorrect.



...but it was a little less difficult, a little less uncomfortable, and (hopefully) a little less incorrect. The goal is not perfection. Next year, the benefit of hindsight will expose this year's mistakes and we can once again go through the mild discomfort of correcting them. And, with any luck, our second pass was enough of an improvement on our first that the mistakes will be smaller.

I've jumped ahead of myself a bit, here. The 2015 salary curve starts at about 7.5 lakh rupees ($12,000 USD) for Developer Level 0.0 and curves relatively smoothly up to 317 lakh rupees ($500,000 USD) for our realistic Developer Level 10.0. Everyone at nilenso is presently L1.x - L4.x, so don't get too excited about multi-crore salaries we might lavish you with. But how did we arrive at the curve?


Reviews in 2015: Tim & Deepa to the rescue


Our review process in our first year wasn't too bad. Everyone received meaningful feedback and was given a clear path for growth. However, it felt ad-hoc, everyone's feedback/reviews were delayed (as they are in most companies), and it felt strange to have the Executive drive the conversation -- even the most logical and robotic Executives are still human and will introduce their own bias. In 2015, we improved on this thanks to two distinct efforts from Tim and Deepa, who signed up to organize the 2015 review process. This would normally be a thankless job, consisting mostly of manually coordinating an Excel spreadsheet. But not this year.

First, Tim (being Tim) spent a Saturday automating the review workflow. The nilenso reviews app was born. Since any annual review cycle for any company tends to be little more than swimlanes of todo lists, it was the perfect job for Rails and Heroku. Tim, and anyone else at nilenso, could modify the workflow, relationships, and privacy across the reviews process in a matter of minutes with a quick code change and redeploy. Everyone could glance at http://reviews.nilenso.com to see their feedback and to hassle people who hadn't reviewed their colleagues yet.

The review app lets everyone ask for reviews/feedback from specific people. Reviewers are then tasked with completing a review for everyone who asked them. Each review is a free-form text entry field and a "suggested level" field, if the reviewer is comfortable suggesting the reviewee's growth in the past year. Though we'd initially planned on discussing salaries directly, the Level system addresses skill, contribution, network, and experience rather than what anyone "feels" other employees should make. This has the immeasurable advantage of keeping emotion out of the equation and keeping everyone focused on the facts at hand.

Second, Deepa facilitated the review meetings. After scheduling and planning each meeting with Tim, she played the role of non-participating facilitator to discussions which included the reviewee, everyone who gave them a review in the app, and anyone else who wanted to listen in. Each meeting started with everyone in the room grabbing a laptop (or iPad) and quickly re-reading the reviews in question, to make sure they hadn't missed anything. Then the reviewee would summarize their self-review and the reviews they'd received from their coworkers; we did away with "sponsors" and let the person speak for themselves. At the end of the summary, s/he would explain whether the average Suggested Level (calculated by the app) seemed appropriate. The floor was then open to discuss and debate. By the end of these meetings, everyone knew what everyone else's level would be for the upcoming year.

The meetings cost us a lot of time but everyone agreed it was time well spent. Attempts to limit participation in 2014 hadn't prevented the review meetings from cutting into everyone's work day, and in 2015 there was no question that the open forum felt totally transparent.

A good rule of thumb for corporate transparency: You're probably doing it right when everyone finds the transparency boring.



A small consulting company has a fixed amount of money to spend on annual raises. By working through the entire review process without discussing money, we were free to be completely honest with one another with feedback^ and conversation. Certainly some conversations were harder than others but the overall process was smooth. Once everyone's reviews were complete, Deepa took away a Level Curve (really more of a straight line with dots on it, like above) which she could retrofit our earnings onto. That became the proposed Salary Curve, which we discussed one last time and then finalized.

^ It's worth noting that we expect feedback to be a continuous, daily process. If someone is giving you new constructive criticism for the first time only in the annual review process, they've failed you miserably. Since peer-to-peer reviews take the form of "feedback" the terms are sometimes used interchangeably. Though we may muddle terminology, we try not to muddle intent.


Unsolved Problems


Though we have a smooth, meaningful Level/Salary Curve for developers, we are yet to figure out what this will look like for administrators, executives, project managers, designers, accountants, or operations staff. We only have one desiger, executive, and PM on-staff at the moment, so our best approach is to find some middle ground between industry averages and the developer curve. But that's vague. These roles are definitely in beta at nilenso.

A meaningful salary curve for operations staff is even murkier. Though we have 3 people who do operations (security & operations, cleaning, operations & basic accounting) and their salaries are similar, the industry average for these positions is unfairly low in India. We're also less sure what the growth path for each of these folks will be in the coming 2 or 3 years. Mintu will certainly get bored of working security at some point, and we need to make sure the Salary/Level Curve for Operations makes sense in light of that.

Though nilenso has a very liberal paid leaves policy (unlimited sick leave and plenty of vacation), we do not have sabbaticals (unpaid leave) figured out. Sabbaticals present a number of difficulties: Does a senior employee have more access to sabbaticals than a junior employee? Someone senior undoubtedly makes more money and has longer vacations in any company, but most companies don't offer sabbaticals. Is one's salary based on a 12-month working year, or 12 months less any sabbatical months? How can we plan sabbaticals far enough in advance that they're comfortable for both us and our clients? How many sabbaticals can a consulting firm support in one year? At one time?

Nilenso has expenses. An office, non-billable staff, food, travel, books/classes/conferences, and a couple of internet connections. While everyone would love to take a sabbatical whenever they like, it is damaging to a company if the company isn't 100% remote and overhead-free.


Other Approaches


Discussing salaries-in-a-coop always leads to the peripheral topics: performance reviews, bonuses, reinvestment, paycheques, and sabbaticals. I was excited to find that talking with Tom Hall and Hakan Raberg the conversation was almost entirely focused on sabbaticals. Juxt and MavenHive  take a similar approach: you get paid for the hours you work. A company could take this idea to either extreme: either by hiring subcontractors rather than full-blown employees or by laying out basic salaries and adjusting them every month.

Tom hasn't chosen a model yet, and I'm guessing it will evolve with his co-op. His key issue is the ability for employees to take sabbaticals (he describes the need for sabbaticals as a "founding principle"), which for a consultancy implies salaries will swell and shrink with billable hours. At nilenso, we've had varying success with mixing hourly billing rates and monthly retainers. Depending on one's billing model, the process of taking sabbaticals could shift. Once Tom's co-op Gets Huge(tm), it will require operations, admin, and accounting staff. Those folks still need to get paid even if all the developers are off at HillHacks for a month, so I'm excited to see what solution he and his team opt for.


tl;dr


For us, decoupling performance reviews from both feedback and salaries has worked really well. Feedback should be a daily occurrence, not a yearly ceremony. Salary structure should be a consequence of financial planning, not individual evaluation. Because we were discussing "levels", rather than salaries, emotions were (largely) kept at bay and we could discuss facts. We will definitely use Tim's Review App again next year since we found it a great tool for getting things done and for discussions. We recommend you try it too!

We will keep publishing our experiments, failures, and learnings. And we'd love to hear from you at hello@nilenso.com if you have a suggestion!



Huge thanks to Tim and Deepa for making this post happen!

Patient Charts


This is a brief idea I remembered while cleaning up some old files. It initially occurred to me while discussing the status of my eyes with the surgeon after I had a vitrectomy and scleral buckle. Our conversations were terrible. He would stare at the back of my eye with his lenses and probes, ask what I saw, I would give a lengthy description (forgetting a few things) and he would inevitably only write down one or two things I said. It seemed like the old software engineering concept of "shared understanding" wasn't really familiar to ophthalmologists.

I would discuss the process with my Mom on the phone during my recovery from the surgeries. In one of these conversations, she mentioned she always takes notes if she's seeing a doctor with any regularity. She can then present the notes to the doctor, making the information consistent, repeatable, and persistent. Her communication with the doctor effectively begins at her identification of symptoms, and that communication is as good at time of delivery as it was at the time of her recording.

This system made a lot of sense to me. The doctor has a chart describing my condition as the doctor sees it, on a timeline correlating to events such as surgeries. Why didn't I, as a patient, have a similar tool?

For myself and my doctor, I came up with the following (click for a PDF):



Using this, I could precisely describe what I was seeing, when I was seeing it. More importantly, I could visualize things that were difficult or impossible for him to see with external instruments, such as:


This is how I filled out a page of my "patient chart" when I described the blind spot I was seeing after surgery. Since this is a symptom of optic nerve damage, there was no way for the doctor to see this.



Another page looked like this. These were Perfluoron bubbles left in my eye by accident, during the surgery. The doctor could see the largest of these, but only after I repeatedly pointed it out.


When I saw him for the last time, he commented that he should really have a stack of blank "charts" for his other patients. I doubt he ever implemented this... and I wish I'd left him some... but perhaps my Mom's general idea will be of use to someone else.

Emergent-Continuous Design

I've recently returned to Canada for a month to visit family. While here, I've run into some old friends (and friends of friends) whom I haven't been in contact with since moving to Bangalore three years ago. "Oh! You live in India? What's that like?" is one common conversation piece. Or the frequent line of questioning which positions the entire subcontinent as though it were a chic new restaurant: "India? You must like it. Do you like it?"

I do like it. Bangalore is vibrant, growing, and accessible. But those aren't necessary qualities for living abroad; many would be happy with seclusion, calm, and diversity as qualities around which to build a new home. As long as I'm in technology, however, a jostling city life breeds the right rate of change. Change, in Indian cities, is ubiquitous, constantly pushing me to remember humanity's global growth and interdependence.

While home visiting my parents, I'm reminded of this as I look out across their back yard. The back yard is taking shape. It's been taking shape for twenty years. The grass was replaced by xeriscaped gardens of mini-forest. The fence was overhauled. A garage was built which would serve as my Dad's shop as he went through his own transition from educator to carpenter. A giant square hole marks the forthcoming home of a new shed. The yard has forever been under construction, under repair. The yard is a microcosm, a city of two. The shop is another, smaller microcosm for a city of one and the change is faster here: one week it's the construction site of ornate boxes, the next, of kitchen cabinetry. The workbenches and storage of the shop are single-layer, finite recursion, self-replicating organisms when the shop occasionally finds use for modifying itself or improving on its existing structure.

My house, Bangalore, one month ago. While en route to Cooke Town's neighbourhood tree-mapping exercise, Abhinav, Nid, and Noopur were storm-stayed in my apartment while hail and rain tore apart the undocumented trees outside. Sufficiently warmed with tea, honey, and chocolate, the conversation drifted to the layout of my flat, as it was Noopur's first visit. She wasn't offended by much (which is in the neighbourhood of compliments when in the company of designers and architects) save the laundry rack. I have a metal laundry rack I drag into the living room whenever I'm drying clothes, which is almost always, and drag elsewhere when I have guests. She suggested a wooden ceiling rack on pulleys and when Nid complained that such a rack is always visible, Noopur had an observation that, like all meaningful observations, seems obvious in hindsight: It should be always visible, since I'm always doing laundry! A pulley system keeps it out of the way of foot traffic and makes a home for the drying clothes in my tiny one-bedroom apartment. We all agreed that an extra room, even if I had it, wasn't a real solution: design, it would seem, is as much about admitting the truths of our constraints as it is about shaping them and manipulating the world within them.

My parents' house, Saskatchewan, last week. Out the back window, I watch my parents put in their garden, I notice two things. Both are answers to Alexander's question, "how does the space make you feel?" and they're both surprising. The work-in-progress garden shed feels ...productive. It feels like design is happening. As my Dad drags a hose around the yard to water plants, the hose, comparatively, feels like a burden. The design of the hose is over -- and it's a failure. Like the laundry rack, it's not a part of its environment. While in use, it's an eyesore, something to be put away, to be hidden from the view of neighbours and friends. While hidden, these items are the shame of a household: they get their own space, but not much, and that space serves no other purpose but to hide those tools to which we ascribe utility without beauty.

Today. As luck would have it, my ponderings over the hose came just in advance of my parents installing underground sprinklers. Mechanical rain now falls in late evening, automatically, as the evaporative powers of the sun quiesce. One wonders how many technological leaps we are from harnessing the rain of the sky rather than our parabolic artifice. When we do, will we relearn the lessons nature's rhythms have taught us in our crops and dams? A universal desire to reverse our worldwide climate change seems to hint that we might overdo our first go in the driver's seat of Earth's weather system. Thankfully, our first attempts at anything are usually dramatically underpowered against their inspiration. Much of the global balancing act is done for us and humanity's most embarrassing stumbling comes on the heels of progressive haste.

Our work in more plastic media is discovering itself. The absence of physical boundaries (save the limitations of electric current and the speeds of light and thought) give us undeniable freedom to play. Reshaping a metaphorical yard: the shop, the tools in the shop, the garden, and even ourselves... these things can and do happen on a daily basis. A tempting trap is to believe we in the software industry are regularly creating revolutionary works. No matter how quickly or effectively we work as individuals or teams, the measurable output, which one could say is measurable on a scale of global human awareness and, considered in that physical frame, only measurable for a still-fleeting period of time (though that time may span generations, if unlikely), is undeniably chaotic. Controlled chaos loops, floats, or crushes the paper gliders of human thought across an atmosphere of gas perceived as modern time. It is perceived this way, of course, at every point in time. All people of all societies in all eras have witnessed the cliff as though it were impossible to witness anything else, as this threshold can hardly unwind into another truth. Our work on the cliffs, our collective creation, is the emergence of the next technology, the next business model, the next government, the next family, the next garden.

I often ask myself if the waves of emergence -- the climate of generational human endeavour to the storms of our yearly activity -- are so obvious and observable in the absence of our bustling, surely successful businesses built on meaningful technologies are little but the observation of our current wave or updraft and the intelligent prediction of the next obstacle against which it will crash? Surely. But such predictions are unfortunately easy to make in terms of accuracy on only relative scales of time. The trajectory of our intent is clear: we will eliminate poison and disease as we unearth solutions, we will find new systems of thought for peace on every scale, we will feed the world's hungry and stem our cancerous growth. One look no farther than one's own household, but observation at every scale tells the same story: across our cities and across global statistics.

But what inaccurately passes for optimism to the inattentive also does not write a guidebook for the most perceptive witness of our Earth-sized paper glider competition. A rock in the nose of one glider may put it well ahead of the rest, crushing competitors along the way - at least as long as the rock-nosed glider remains in the air. The wiser glider-flyers mutter clichés about the dance, about the interplay between the gliders, about a glider design which will outlast not only their glider but the very memory of their glider and themselves. Every shade of the palette. Every new gadget. Every line of code folded across every abstraction in the domain across every abstraction which transcend domain across every medium of shared knowledge. Our grandchildren will not know GitHub or Oracle any more intimately than we presently experience Compuserve or Geocities. But what becomes of the ideas? As the world pulses closer, I can only guess that increased precision -- the absolute and utterly undivided attention to each crease and fold of my glider -- will dictate how long I might keep it afloat. If we observe the unbroken continuity of the universe in which we live, and dedicate ourselves to act only on the threshold of that continuity, how can we fail?

Morris's "Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful." implies further union. The perfect localized mechanical weather system would be one which tunes itself and is utterly undetectable as human creation. The perfect corporation is a model which outlasts its owners and employees, a design so beautiful as to barely materialize into view. The perfect network connects everything, grows, learns, and heals... but does not intrude. I endorse pursuing the inevitable confluence of these notions. Our personal spaces are easy to fill with both. Our work spaces are quickly converging with our personal spaces, and should be equally beautiful and functional. Our public spaces are little more than a network of those two. And our codebases? Well, that's where many of us spend the majority of our time. In the plastic. It only makes sense that we want to see inside what we long for out here.

How To Recycle





If we look around Bangalore, we see a city with enormous potential. Businesses thrive here. Technology, design, food, and music are all finding a cosmopolitan home in 2015 Bangalore. It is not hard to imagine the Bangalore of the future: a thriving metropolis of modernity built in the centre of the southern subcontinent. The city is already growing quickly -- in many ways, outgrowing itself.

One such way is waste management.

The future Bangalore is clean. Electric vehicles, bicycles, and a bustling metro will spell the end of inner-city air pollution. Modern clean-water infrastructure and waste water facilities will end water-borne disease. One can visit the world's most sophisticated cities today to witness these features. However, humanity's attitude toward garbage still limps along, across the globe. As I visit cities and towns in Canada, the approach to garbage is almost ubiquitous: landfills. There is a bit of paper, plastic, and glass recycling here and there... but it's not front-and-centre, and it's often not even certain that the recycling is really happening. Canada is a big country, and it would take millennia at our current population density to recognize our bad habit.


Bangalore is more fortunate. The consequences of poor waste management are immediate, and they frequently make the news. The landfills around Bangalore are poisoning nearby villages, and when those villages revolt garbage piles up in the city, poisoning the very people who produced it. The necessary pressure exists for Bangalore to leapfrog other major cities across Earth and tackle waste with a vision of the Long Now. The steps below are a sort of branching flowchart: each step removes more and more, in order of importance, from the waste in your home and workplace.




Step 0: E-Waste

Never throw electronics or batteries in the garbage. They are extremely poisonous. Thanks to their value, they're also incredibly easy to recycle. Bangalore has many e-waste recycling options.


Step 1: Compost

The clearest distinction between types of waste is compostable (organic) waste vs. Everything Else. Thus far, the BBMP Solid Waste Management doesn't offer compost services. But it's very easy to compost in any size of home. Composting doesn't stink and doesn't attract vermin.

Composting requires very few tools, and they are easily obtained:


Step 1.1 Compost leaves!

Leaf composters are even less work than food waste composters, but they do a huge service to Bangalore neighbourhoods by preventing BBMP employees from burning tree droppings within city limits. Asthma affects a lot of us, and this is a sure way to reduce its effects.

You can buy leaf composters pre-built from organizations like Daily Dump or you can build one yourself using steel or wood for a frame and chickenwire or plastic mesh for a liner. Use a liner with larger holes so the finished compost can fall through the bottom.

Once you have your leaf composter built or purchased, you may even want to consider locking it outside at the street so your entire neighbourhood can use it! Most of the leaves at nilenso are street-side, so we keep our leaf composter outside the gate and speak to the BBMP service people frequently about using it instead of burning leaves.


Step 2: Segregate Dirty/Clean

Recycling in Bangalore is done at a variety of stages. There are BBMP waste segregation facilities all over the city, and even if you can't actively recycle yet, separating soiled waste from clean waste will keep your home and office clean and discourage pests like cockroaches.

The rules for this are simple: Is there food waste that can't be cleaned off? That's soiled waste. If you can clean the waste, do that!

Examples of soiled waste are dirty napkins, greasy pizza boxes, and aluminum foil with burnt food on it. Examples of garbage that can be cleaned: dahi containers, tetrapacks, plastic bottles, aluminum cans. Clean these by washing and rinsing them in your kitchen sink. Throw soiled/dirty waste out regularly, since it attracts bugs. Clean waste, even if not recycled, will never rot or stink since it's nothing but glass/plastic/metal/paper. I often go an entire month without throwing out my clean dry waste.


Step 3: Recycle

Once you have started segregating clean waste from soiled waste, full recycling is just a short jump away! Segregate paper/cardboard, plastic, glass, and metal. Those four categories comprise most non-organic material of anything you might purchase. If your neighbourhood offers recycling services for any of these materials, use them! There is a list of dry waste collection centres available on the BBMP website, even if it's a bit difficult to read.

If your neighbourhood doesn't offer dry waste collection and recycling yet, you can contact the BBMP's Commissioner and Administrator.


Step 4: Reuse!

This step should probably come before Steps 1 through 3, but it's not as frequent, since the items tend to be larger. There are dry waste collection services in Bangalore which will also happily pick up large quantities of dry waste: furniture, tools, appliances, linens and clothing. They will separate reusable items from recyclable items and deal with each appropriately. In particular, Hasirudala is a non-profit which works in conjunction with the BBMP to collect large quantities of dry waste. You can contact them here:




As Bangalore grows and matures, so will its services. Every aspect of this simple process will become smoother and more ubiquitous. Waste will, sooner or later, transform from Bangalore's most visible social problem into a valuable resource. The growth process will of course experience its ups and downs, so don't be discouraged. Persist. Your integrity will become the integrity of your home, your workplace, your neighbourhood, your city.

Have fun!